tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-548248685729133691.post8835251014171003605..comments2024-01-17T13:16:10.378-08:00Comments on Joseph4GI: GRANOLA BABIES: BIG MISTAKEJosephhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/14190648498809795551noreply@blogger.comBlogger21125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-548248685729133691.post-31059306324196080622020-02-27T09:26:20.193-08:002020-02-27T09:26:20.193-08:00It's not on the parents; it is axiomatic that ...It's not on the parents; it is axiomatic that a fully-informed parent yields an intact child. Doctors have a big liability issue on their hands, and trespass and torture.Erichttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11283412788952541851noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-548248685729133691.post-38226979754196111012014-03-06T20:55:31.588-08:002014-03-06T20:55:31.588-08:00I do think that parents who do it on a whim , espe...I do think that parents who do it on a whim , especially When They Know It's Not Necessary, Deserve a Special Place In Hell.Busy lil' Beehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01147772911184364775noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-548248685729133691.post-49828886701310589942014-03-05T08:28:33.947-08:002014-03-05T08:28:33.947-08:00Next time someone uses the AAP report link them th...Next time someone uses the AAP report link them this. http://pediatrics.aappublications.org/content/early/2013/03/12/peds.2012-2896.full.pdf+html<br />beckerd87https://www.blogger.com/profile/16365253644347492282noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-548248685729133691.post-33807531913850532072013-01-02T20:01:00.114-08:002013-01-02T20:01:00.114-08:00Because it's usually not the parents who mutil...Because it's usually not the parents who mutilated their children.<br /><br />It's doctors who did it and are getting away with stoking in them a false sense of entitlement, having them sign a release form, and then pointing at them and saying "They, those nasty parents made me do it."<br /><br />Don't blame parents because they bought the AIDS/cancer bit line hook and sinker.<br /><br />Blame the doctors and the medical organizations and legal systems that absolve them.<br /><br />I go deeper into this here:<br /><br />http://joseph4gi.blogspot.jp/2012/12/the-circumcision-blame-game.html<br /><br />I agree; it seems today any sort of criticism, dissent, or even polite commentary is considered "hate," "judgement," "bashing" and what not.<br /><br />It seems to be the fad nowadays for parents looking for validation to get together and stroke each other's egos. Instead of seeking actual advice, they grope for corroboration and people to agree with everything they say.<br /><br />"Aren't I a great parent?"<br /><br />"Why yes you are. The best there is."<br /><br />"No one like you..."<br /><br />"Um, I think you could do this differently..." [DELETE AND BAN]<br /><br />Sites where parents basically come to validate each other and shut down any form of negative criticism are worthless. How do these people expect to become better parents if they only allow comments that agree with them and delete any comments that don't?<br /><br />Yeah, it's rather clear that the creator of this poster is nothing more than an entrepreneur trying to expand her customer base. No better way to do this than pandering to parents that join websites and groups such as mentioned above. Josephhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14190648498809795551noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-548248685729133691.post-46077402560238381722013-01-02T16:16:50.248-08:002013-01-02T16:16:50.248-08:00why not blame parents who mutilate kids? hopefully...why not blame parents who mutilate kids? hopefully they feel some guilt for what they did. feeling guilt is the sign of having something called conscience.<br /><br />funny too how nowadays any constructive criticism is called hate. since when did people start attacking people for what emotions they might have? and people are forgetting, that to hate evil is to love good.<br /><br />dunno if that picture of the ungranola mamma there is the webmistress in question, but she sure liked cutting up her hair. all that's left is some scruff. and a toy seller thinks she's some expert on parenting issues? don't make me spit my cereal milk up through my nose, lady.Unknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03272646762284736244noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-548248685729133691.post-30876107337633704752012-09-22T06:20:26.494-07:002012-09-22T06:20:26.494-07:00We shouldn't pardon abuse as just "a diff...We shouldn't pardon abuse as just "a different way of parenting."<br /><br />Bravo! Couldn't have said it better myself, which is why I'm "stealing" it. :)<br /><br />That's it in a nutshell, folks!Judithhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14034193953889565815noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-548248685729133691.post-27267832495852679612012-09-20T04:37:35.513-07:002012-09-20T04:37:35.513-07:00In an earlier post, you said:
"However, if I...In an earlier post, you said:<br /><br />"However, if I had encountered any hate-filled intactivists like the ones writing messages on these posts..."<br /><br />A bit of a contrast from:<br /><br />"The hateful and judgemental comments I was referring to were the ones Giselle deleted from the Granola Babies page, not those on this blog."<br /><br />You say:<br /><br />"And I believe that she does welcome opposing viewpoints, however, it is perfectly reasonable to shut down all postings after a critical level of disrespect and nastiness has been exceeded."<br /><br />It is difficult to believe that there was any "disrespect" and "nastiness" out of just word of mouth, especially after intactivists that I know for a fact are polite and tactful left respectful comments, only to have them deleted and to be blocked.<br /><br />I know that there are "intactivists" out there that are nasty. I know. I can be one of them if people get my goat. But I also know that there are people out there who want to smear our movement and either pretend to be intactivist, leaving nasty comments, or outright tell lies and make shit up. That's why it's always a good idea to keep a record on who said what when. Intactivists have learned to keep screen shots and keep copies of what is posted, so that people can't come out and slander us.<br /><br />"I don't want to get into the debate of whether Giselle was right or wrong in creating this poster."<br /><br />Well guess what, hollyr, that is what this whole blog post series is about. Contribute or just step...<br /><br />"I only wanted to come to her defense against people who questioned her INTENTIONS."<br /><br />The road to hell is paved with good intent...<br /><br />"I believe what she was trying to say at the bottom of the poster was, "Let's start from a place of knowing that we all love our children equally regardless of our different choices. Now, let's get together and have an open-minded and respectful discussion about those choices to see what we can learn from one another."<br /><br />This may have been her intent, but intent and outcome are two completely different things. Unfortunately, that doesn't seem to be the message the poster sends. Many of us see it as condoning infant genital mutilation as a legitimate "choice" parents shouldn't have to think twice about, but instead, "celebrate."<br /><br />"That kind of forum is something worth celebrating, and that is what Giselle is trying to create."<br /><br />If Giselle wanted to make things right, she would listen to us and change her poster. Instead, she gets on the defense, accusing of "nastiness" we don't really know happened for a fact. She deletes even polite, peaceful comments and blocks all who dare question her.<br /><br />That doesn't sound at all like someone who wants to "bring people together." That sounds like someone whose intention is to marginalize, make herself seem altruistic, and by doing that, gaining more business from the mothers whose favor she gains.<br /><br />I reiterate; intended or not, the ad sends the message that circumcision is a "choice" to be "celebrated." It is despicable and infuriating and it needs to be retracted.Josephhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14190648498809795551noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-548248685729133691.post-58983977922493649762012-09-19T22:14:59.165-07:002012-09-19T22:14:59.165-07:00The hateful and judgemental comments I was referri...The hateful and judgemental comments I was referring to were the ones Giselle deleted from the Granola Babies page, not those on this blog. And I believe that she does welcome opposing viewpoints, however, it is perfectly reasonable to shut down all postings after a critical level of disrespect and nastiness has been exceeded. I don't want to get into the debate of whether Giselle was right or wrong in creating this poster. I only wanted to come to her defense against people who questioned her INTENTIONS. I believe what she was trying to say at the bottom of the poster was, "Let's start from a place of knowing that we all love our children equally regardless of our different choices. Now, let's get together and have an open-minded and respectful discussion about those choices to see what we can learn from one another." That kind of forum is something worth celebrating, and that is what Giselle is trying to create.hollyrhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10295505156861988964noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-548248685729133691.post-16230953870298783612012-09-19T02:18:17.939-07:002012-09-19T02:18:17.939-07:00I'm sorry, maybe I define "hate" dif...I'm sorry, maybe I define "hate" differently, I went through my comments and I'm just not seeing the "hate."<br /><br />Are you really interpreting what you see as "hate?" Or are you a Granola Babies drone sent out to slander intactivists? Been an intactivist long enough to know actual hateful people who want to smear our movement exist.<br /><br />I agree; parents should not be attacked or be made to feel guilty. I believe parents all want the best for their children, and those who chose circumcision probably believe their son would get AIDS or cancer otherwise. Doctors took advantage of parental fear to con them into circumcising their sons.<br /><br />Parents who went ahead with circumcision shouldn't be made to feel justified and encouraged to remain ignorant either.<br /><br />I'm sorry, I don't know this Giselle woman, but her poster sends the horrendous message that circumcision is this "patental choice" like any other that should be "celebrated."<br /><br />Sorry if pointing out that this is WRONG is "hateful" and "judgmental" to you.<br /><br />If Giselle only means well, why does she not allow even polite comments criticizing her ad on her Facebook page? Why is she deleting comments? Blocking people? Doesn't sound like someone who wants to make things right for everyone, just cater to her customer base.<br /><br />Is she interested in this wonderful forum for parents? Or is she seeking to gain more customers by pandering to them?<br /><br />Her ad sends the wrong message. If she wanted to send the message you say she did, she screwed up royally.<br /><br />Her poster is infuriating and insulting. It sends the message that circumcision is to be a "celebrated parental choice." Some parents parent differently. Sometimes it's parenting, sometimes it's abuse. We shouldn't pardon abuse as just "a different way of parenting."<br /><br />If she wants to make things right she needs to issue out a new and revised poster and offer an apology.<br /><br />This is poster is an abomination.<br /><br />Josephhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14190648498809795551noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-548248685729133691.post-829925264782909492012-09-18T22:40:16.307-07:002012-09-18T22:40:16.307-07:00Giselle Baturay, the owner of Granola Babies, crea...Giselle Baturay, the owner of Granola Babies, created this poster for one reason only: to send a message of acceptance and love to ALL mothers. That is what her entire business/blog is founded upon. I have been attending classes and mothers' groups at Granola Babies (all of which are FREE), since my son was a newborn, and I credit her for my granola transformation. I am one of those mothers who had an epidural and had my son circumcised in the hospital, as per convention. After meeting and having numerous open-minded discussions with Giselle and other granola mothers at her store, I will do things differently next time. However, if I had encountered any hate-filled intactivists like the ones writing messages on these posts, I NEVER would have stayed to hear what else they had to say and would have missed the message. By creating a place (both in her store and on her blog) where all mothers can come to share and learn from one another, without fearing that we'll be condemned for our choices, Giselle will be able to influence so many more mothers towards natural parenting. I can see that you care deeply about this issue. If you really want to reach mothers like me, maybe you should give Giselle's approach a try. hollyrhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10295505156861988964noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-548248685729133691.post-14900630022317515592012-09-18T11:55:56.376-07:002012-09-18T11:55:56.376-07:00@Hannah, I know exactly what you mean, anytime I s...@Hannah, I know exactly what you mean, anytime I share my experience, it seems like there are also those who come out of the woodwork exclaiming that circumcision is a parental right! I circumcised 2 of my 3 sons because I was young and dumb (not that all young moms are dumb...but I was) and I regret it probably more than anything else in the world. I did it because I really believed it was for the best- not for any aesthetic reasons and the minute I realized that wasn't true, I felt like a monster. My 3rd son is intact and any future children will be as well because it is not my foreskin to remove. A parental choice is something like "oh I want to let my son play with dolls to teach him to be nurturing". A parental choice is not one that permanently alters a child for absolutely no medical reason whatsoever.<br /><br />This was very well written. I must admit that I had the same reaction when I saw that poster. I'm glad someone shared my feelings toward it.<br />Dannihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03134543530186062526noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-548248685729133691.post-14723181408531622452012-09-18T05:17:39.154-07:002012-09-18T05:17:39.154-07:00Yeah, Chrissy, you're totally missing the poin...Yeah, Chrissy, you're totally missing the point. Like I posted every time I saw this mess of a poster, if you had replaced "He is circumcised" with "I am a stay at home mom" there would be no controversy. Circumcising your child is not a way to raise him. It's just a mistake that is done once, either out of ignorance and/or stupidity by the parent. It CANNOT be compared to the other ways of actually raising a child, which is done on a daily basis through adulthood. It has NOTHING to do with parents who cut their sons and later regretted it. It is NOTHING to celebrate. It is a stigma that needs to be eradicated.Judithhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14034193953889565815noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-548248685729133691.post-90860947581448057132012-09-18T01:28:24.491-07:002012-09-18T01:28:24.491-07:00It sounds like you are giving the creators of this...It sounds like you are giving the creators of this poster the benefit of the doubt. To each their own.<br /><br />The poster says circumcision is a "different choice" that should be celebrated, and that is sexist, self-serving, self-congratulation on the part of the creator.<br /><br />Perhaps the original creator didn't mean it that way, but that's how s/he comes off, and it doesn't help that Granola Babies wants to pretend it doesn't, deleting all who disagree.<br /><br />It has come to my attention that Granola Babies is a business. More than likely this was an attempt to pander to mother's who circumcised and/or are planning to circumcise their children, which is probably their biggest customer base. It makes sense to imply that circumcision is this "choice" for which parents should not only be let off the hook, it should be "celebrated."<br /><br />Yes, I know there are mothers who regret their son's circumcision. Perhaps coming to terms with it and realizing they now know better is something that should be celebrated. No, mother's shouldn't be continuously made to feel guilty.<br /><br />But that is not the message I get from this poster. This poster seems to seek mothers who circumcised their children and tries to make them feel justified to have made "just a different choice." Knowing that Granola Babies is a business, it seems this was just their intention in order to encourage them to make their purchases with them.<br /><br />This poster is capitalizing at the expense of children's rights. It remains condemned on this blog, and Granola Babies needs to retract this piece of circumcision propaganda right now. It will probably be the worst business decision they ever made.<br /><br />They are deceptively NOT crunchy; with American doctors encouraging circumcision, and with the stigma that still persists in this country against not being circumcised, and mothers who leave their children intact DEFINITELY hear it from other circumcising mothers, the caption should have read "He is NOT circumcised," or better yet "he is intact." That would have better fit in with actual crunchy choices like co-sleeping and breast-feeding.<br /><br />"He is circumcised" is so out of place here!<br /><br />As out of place as "she is circumcised."<br /><br />You don't seem to address the questions I made; how far is Granola Babies going to enable horrible parental "choices" to attract a customer base?<br /><br />Would they agree to "celebrate" a Malaysian woman's decision to "sunat" her daughter?<br /><br />You're right, it doesn't say it's the "right choice," and maybe she regrets it.<br /><br />Yes? No?<br /><br />Sorry, the poster is a mistake and it needs to be taken down.Josephhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14190648498809795551noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-548248685729133691.post-77116202633377689072012-09-18T00:25:31.965-07:002012-09-18T00:25:31.965-07:00I think upsetting people must've been the poin...I think upsetting people must've been the point of creating and posting that image. It looks like someone has nothing better to do than to try to hurt people. This shows the poster's true colors and will ultimately turn around and bite them.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-548248685729133691.post-31650411609315464842012-09-17T21:23:24.702-07:002012-09-17T21:23:24.702-07:00I disagree big time. Nowhere does it say we shoul...I disagree big time. Nowhere does it say we should celebrate the parenting decisions nor whether they are decisions that were regretted later or made in necessity, it just says celebrate the similarities that they all love their kids. So should a mother who is bombarded with misinformation and pressures and allows her son to be circumcised and later becomes sick with regret and falls into a deep PPD as a result be forever ostracized because her son is circumcised? I did initially feel a little weird about the inclusion of circumcision until I remembered how many very crunchy moms I know who circumcised their first son and regretted it later and went on to join anticirc. groups and not circumcise future sons. Had they said "lets celebrate all parenting choices!" I would agree with you 100%, but it doesn't say that. Read it again.Chrissyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05773088704491072968noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-548248685729133691.post-48195538209774220852012-09-17T13:17:44.682-07:002012-09-17T13:17:44.682-07:00A +. Couldnt agree more.A +. Couldnt agree more.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-548248685729133691.post-25972572940898603642012-09-17T13:15:09.047-07:002012-09-17T13:15:09.047-07:00Agree. Every time someone posts something in my lo...Agree. Every time someone posts something in my local "crunch" group about circumcision (article about the AAP's "new stance") a bunch of people rail against it (pointing out error, outlining the human rights issues), a handful of people bravely share that they circumcised their sons and regret it, and then someone gets offended and comes back with the "parental choice" nonsense.Hannahhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12519685315586889843noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-548248685729133691.post-72705121453159047512012-09-17T13:13:31.581-07:002012-09-17T13:13:31.581-07:00cant believe a "natural parenting" websi...cant believe a "natural parenting" website is trying to support RIC..... embarassing.Coophttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16877887407613640754noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-548248685729133691.post-1674716407911588152012-09-17T10:04:43.031-07:002012-09-17T10:04:43.031-07:00Excellent rebuttal. Shared & tweeted.Excellent rebuttal. Shared & tweeted. MoonPyehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00611518541893639833noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-548248685729133691.post-64300775162571383832012-09-17T08:53:49.671-07:002012-09-17T08:53:49.671-07:00Thank you for this. You speak exactly to the issue...Thank you for this. You speak exactly to the issue which is sexism. You also address the FACT that parents don't have rights, they have responsibilities to keep children safe. If parents cannot or will not do this, then society MUST.HappyMommyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14779414200995435823noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-548248685729133691.post-27838920779503066852012-09-17T02:57:14.928-07:002012-09-17T02:57:14.928-07:00I refuse to support any page, organization, etc. t...I refuse to support any page, organization, etc. that so openly says RIC is OK (even if indirectly). What makes it worse is that this page/organization claims to be "crunchy/granola."<br /><br />I'm sorry... Removing a child's healthy and functioning body parts without immediate medical necessity is nowhere near anything natural/crunchy/granola.Faithhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05633865800161743116noreply@blogger.com